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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    131

    Default advance or retard timing

    I believe that the car I am working on is running a "little: hot due to timing.It did not heat up before we took out the dizzy to replace the intake. now it is running hotter (not overheating) than it was before the exchange.Does retarding the timing or advancing the timing make it run cooler.
    1932 Ford 3 window w/302 Ford power,AOD trans.
    1951 Ford coupe ,3 chop,sectioned 2",air bagged w/ 302 AOD trans.
    1955 Thunderbird 312c.i. 4V 3 speed with overdrive (wife's classic)
    1960 Ranchero Custom shaved, dropped ,nosed and decked
    1967 Shelby GT-500 Tribute 428 8V
    1969 Mustang Sportsroof GT
    2009 Focus SEL (wife's wheels)
    2014 F-150 supercab 4X4 EcoBoost
    2011 Mustang convertible

    But,I bought my daughter a new Dodge Dart for college...We don't park it near our house

  2. #2

    Default

    OK, tell us more where is the timing set at now? How do you know it is running hot do you have a guage reading? Did you change the thermostat when you swapped the intake manifold? Are you using a thermostat with a different spec, 180 degrees?

    I bet it is running lean. Did you put the same carb back on, new gaskets? Same carb spacer? Vacuum leak? Did you do the spray starter fluid or WD40 all the way around the intake trick to see what happens to the revs? What are the revs at idle?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    131

    Default response

    Please just let me know an answer to the original question Everything else has been checked.
    1932 Ford 3 window w/302 Ford power,AOD trans.
    1951 Ford coupe ,3 chop,sectioned 2",air bagged w/ 302 AOD trans.
    1955 Thunderbird 312c.i. 4V 3 speed with overdrive (wife's classic)
    1960 Ranchero Custom shaved, dropped ,nosed and decked
    1967 Shelby GT-500 Tribute 428 8V
    1969 Mustang Sportsroof GT
    2009 Focus SEL (wife's wheels)
    2014 F-150 supercab 4X4 EcoBoost
    2011 Mustang convertible

    But,I bought my daughter a new Dodge Dart for college...We don't park it near our house

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Kenora, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Timing can affect engine heat. Does the distributor line up the same as before the manifold swap? How does the engine sound? You may have advanced the distributor one tooth. What about the new manifold? Did you check to ensure the cooling tubes were matched to your engine? I seem to remember that different decade heads and blocks used different cooling configurations.

    YOu can check base timing by getting cyl. #1 to top dead center on the compression stroke, then seeing how the distributor lines up. The rotor should be sitting right below the # 1 plug wire position. A felt pen mark drawn down the side of the distributor from the #1 position of the cap will make it easier to determine. If it's not close, then you may be one tooth out. Remember, the rotor turns counter-clockwise.

    Good Luck!
    Regalsnake

    '78 Mustang II, modded King Cobra, 1987 5.0 L EFI, T-5, Versailles 9" posi, Granada 11' front rotors, BFG T/A's on 15" American Racing Silverstones

    '67 GTA 390 Fastback

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Roswell, Ga.
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Agree, too much advance on the timing will make it run hotter. It's much like leanness because it's firing too soon and not the complete mixture, as I understand it.
    Greg Z.
    '66 GT fb

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    La Porte IN, USA
    Posts
    38,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gjz30075 View Post
    Agree, too much advance on the timing will make it run hotter. It's much like leanness because it's firing too soon and not the complete mixture, as I understand it.
    Correct.


    Alex Denysenko
    Co-Administrator

    NHRA/IHRA/NMCA member and licensed Superstock driver
    NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder 99','00,'01,'02,'03,'04,'05 & '06
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    The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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  7. #7

    Default bet

    Quote Originally Posted by kool66 View Post
    Please just let me know an answer to the original question Everything else has been checked.
    I'm willing to bet it's not your timing! It may be part of it because you are trying to adjust it to compensate for something else, but it is not the root cause.

    As far as your original question how hard is it to advance it and see if the engine runs hotter or cooler. Or retard it and see if it runs hotter or cooler. There's your answer right there.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gjz30075 View Post
    Agree, too much advance on the timing will make it run hotter. It's much like leanness because it's firing too soon and not the complete mixture, as I understand it.
    Incorrect!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Mt. Pleasant sc 29464
    Posts
    1,428

    Default

    A different method of sealing the threads on the sending unit can change your reading.
    08 Sport trac
    69 vert, BB-C-6-9"PL-4 wheel disks
    several classic inboard boats.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ont, Canada
    Posts
    2,103

    Default

    Retarded timing can make it run hot..Try advancing it a little or have it set properly with a light..
    http://mustangsandmore.com/memberpages2/frdnut.html
    68 J-Code Sprint,408W 11.59@120.95

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    364

    Default

    Agree with Frdnut...late timing causes it to fire when the piston is on the way down theoretically exposing more of the cylinder walls to combustion and therefore more transfer of heat into the water jacket. Advance it and try.....John
    69 Fastback 302
    Acapulco Blue 302, Trick Flows, S2MS Cobra Intake,
    262 comp cam, Crane Hi-6 Box and Digital Dist,Roller rockers, Bigs 650DP , Flowtech Ceramic Longtubes, C4 w/2500 stall, JPT valve body, 3.55 Detroit Locker, Magnums.
    69 Mach1, Rcode,Acapulco blue 428cj, 4speed,
    3.50 N Case Trac Loc, Unrestored

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Senoia G.A (South Atlanta)
    Posts
    7,270

    Default

    Both directions can cause it to run hot - but usually youll notice when the timing is too advanced because its hard to start and you get detonation or pinging. In either case it also causes poor fuel mileage as well. Tends to be retarded timing because to get to the point where advanced timing is causing poor fuel mileage and heat you have to be WAY advanced.

    The factory specs often call for about 6 degrees static, but generally the engines run better with about 10 degrees of static timing. Use a timing light, plug the vac can and do it at idle speed. Check that it advances when you rev it. You want to see about 34 degrees total with the engine revving (over about 2000-3000RPM it will be all done). How much timing you put in at static also depends on your mechanical advance too - 10deg is a good starting point for static assuming you have a typical mech advance.

    Now put a vacuum tester on the vac line (or just suck on it with your mouth) you want to be able to see it advance with sucking on the line. I think mine ads about 10 degrees.

    Some vac cans are adjustable by inserting an allen wrench into the hole where the hose goes, you can adjust the spring tension on it and make it advance more easily.

    Also make sure you are using ported vacuum (not manifold vacuum) for the advance can. Some carbs have barbs for both, youll need to check your carb manual to make sure.

    The goal is to have the vac can put a little extra timing advance on the engine when cruising down the road to improve fuel mileage and reduce heat rejection.

    You can operate without a vac adv but youll get more heat and worse fuel consumption while cruising. Not a concern for the racer types who often ditch the vac advance cans but its good for a street car.

    If youve checked your timing and you think its about right then youre probably running lean, but you can try advancing it some and see if that helps. Be careful though, running lean AND advanced timing will likley lead to detonation/pinging which is going to hurt your engine at full throttle.

    Obviously the cooling system needs to be in prime condition too, water pump, radiator, and fan. Sounds like you checked all of that already.
    Phil Ball
    68 mustang coupe
    331 engine, AFR185 heads, comp270s cam, 650DP, Airgap manifold, C4 trans.

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